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The FOX Report With Shepard Smith

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Boehner 9, Sandy Levin 9, Us 9, Washington 8, Bret 7, Michigan 5, U.s. 3, Obama 3, Maryland 3, United States Senate 3, Hastert 2, Chris Stirewalt 2, Simpson Bowles 2, Royce 2, Steny Hoyer 2, Pentagon 2, Nastiness 2, Mike Emanuel 2, Yellowed 2, Levin 2,
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  FOX News    The FOX Report With Shepard Smith    News/Business. Shepard Smith. Analysis and  
   interpretation of the day's lead stories. (CC)  

    January 1, 2013
    7:00 - 8:00pm PST  

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be seeing some real impact. >> absolutely, bret. i think it is just a point, i mean although many legislators have said that this puts some certainty into addressing our economic troubles. in fact it doesn't at all. as you pointed out, the debt ceiling debate is up for review. so that is when you can real le start to see a lot of the bigger players not only in stocks but also bonds the ones who are lending the u.s. government all this money really start to take its toll and we have question investors are reluctant to invest when things are done on a last minute ad hoc basis as has been the case for this congress. >> bret: as more markets open around the world we would like to get your thoughts as we continue our coverage of the fiscal cliff legislation on the house floor live here on fox news channel. and nancy pelosi speaking on the house floor. stick around. they want us to strengthen the middle class.
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>> bret: this is a fox news alert. you are looking live at capitol hill. the dome light is on because congress is in session. and on the house floor they are now debating the senate passed ad legislation that passed 88--- 89-8 early this morning that deals with the effort to stop the fiscal cliff implications. the increasing of taxes and the sequester, the across-the-board tax cuts that would affect both the pentagon and domestic programs. joining me now with an update, a re-set, if you will, chief congressional correspondent mike emanuel. mike? >> bret, good evening, once again. it has been an interesting day up here on capitol hill after that wide bipartisan vote in the united states senate we instantly heard grumblings this morning from house republicans who said they wanted to take time to read the bill. after they read the bill they did not like what they saw. they said where are the
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spending cuts. raise taxes $41 for are every dollar or so that we are going to save money. that didn't add up for them and so house republican leadership spent a whole lot of time today, two different meetings behind closed doors with the rank and file allowing the rank and file to vent about the deal and talk about a way toward. they talked about the possibility of doing an amendment eceptionly to try -- essentially to try to tack on spending cuts on to the existing bill and then send it back to the united states senate. senate democrats threatened to eceptionly leave that sitting on the desk to not touch it and then ultimately to blame the house republicans for punting on a deal that got a huge bipartisan vote in the senate and blaming them for the hugest tax hike in american history. a lot of republican leaders behind closed doors essentially said we don't think this is a very good deal, we don't think we had a very good bargaining position to start but bottom line is the country has officially gone off the fiscal cliff and republicans in the
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house don't want to be blamed for it. so they are going to live to fight another day obviously on the debt ceiling deal when that comes up in the coming weeks, bret. >> bret: okay, mike. let's listen back in to house minority leader pelosi. she just finished saying putting pressure on republicans she doesn't want her side carrying most of the water on this and if they do, they can crow about it. let's listen to the last part of her speech. >> that again, while this bill doesn't accomplish all that we need to do to grow the economy, reduce the deficit and strengthen the middle class it is a good way for us to have a happy start to a new year by taking this first step. i hope that as again you balance the equities, the pros and cons of this legislation that you will ra weigh heavilyn favor of the message that it sends to the kitchen tables of america about the respect we have for them meeting their
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needsers meeting their challenges, honoring their aspirations. this great middle class is the backbone of our democracy. let us all be very patriotic tonight, support our middle class, support our democracy, vote aye on this strong bipartisan legislation which passed 89-8 in the united states senate. let's step up to the plate to do that in the house of representatives. i urge my colleagues to vote aye and yield back the balance of my time. >> gentleman from michigan. mr. camp. >> mr. speaker, i yield myself 45 seconds. >> the gentleman is recognize. >> this is the first step. and now that we have permanently settled how much revenue the government is going to take out of the economy we can move on to next steps. we can and will pursue comprehensive tax reform this year in 2013. and next steps we need to address the fundamental drivers of our deficits and debt and that is out of control
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spending. and with that i urge support for this bill and i reserve the balance of my time. >> the gentleman's time is reserved. >> i yield myself 15 seconds. >> the gentleman s recognized. >> i just don't want the chairman's statement that this settles permanently how much revenue will be made available. the president has made clear there has to be a balanced approach and no one should be misled into thinking otherwise. no one. i now yield two minutes to the distinguished gentleman from new york mr. rangel. >> that was sandy levin the top democrat there on the house ways and means committee make the point after dave camp the chairman of the house ways and means committee said that they wanted to have a balanced approach. something the president mentioned the other day at a news conference as you look at charlie rangel rangel taking hn
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on the house floor. to hear sandy levin, congressman levin, ed, talk about this s not the end of potential revenue essentially saying this isn't the end of tax increases and the effort to go after high income earners for more taxes was something that the president seemed to be signaling the other day that campaign style event at the eisenhower executive office building. >> you're right, bret. the president said it at that event here at the white house basically said more taxes will be going up in the days ahead in order to pay down the debt. and let's not forget there are other taxes going up today january 1 even as we talk about the bush tax cuts that are being extended permanently. number one in order to pay for healthcare reform some people are seeing their dividends tax on dividends go up starting today just over 3 percentage point increase.
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payroll tax cut that had been on the books for the last couple of years expired yesterday. that is not part of this deal. many of the viewers will see that i payroll taxes go up starting today. so in the pay checks moving forward those are going go up. the other thing that is important to look at is when congressman sandy levin was saying this is all part of the president's balanced approach which the president has talked about again and again over the last year or so, that means tax increases, the president was direct and on oest with the american people about that we note. but he also talked about spending cuts. and in this case, this deal is $620 billion in tax increases and yet about a net of about $15 billion in spending cuts. that is obviously not balanced. now, the white house view is the president was willing to have balance and had $1.2 trillion in spending cuts on the table as well as $1.2 trillion in tax increases on the table. speaker boehner walked away from the deal and went to plan b which did not have spending cuts, only the tax increase for
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millionaires which could not pass. and so they are blaming speaker boehner for walking away from the table. but the bottom line is this president is going to face a lot of pressure in the the days ahead during that debt ceiling debate and escape elsewhere toy come up with entitlement reform that makes spending cuts in addition to the taxes starting to go up. >> bret: ed, we heard the president talk numerous times about how he does not want a battle with republicans over increasing the debt ceiling and how we heard he s not going to play that game. he used that friday. we are not going to do it that way. how is he not going to do it that way? how will they prevent that from happening? >> it is an interesting behind the scenes strategy starting to take place. i was talking to one of the president's top advisors a week or so ago and he basically said theyville a completely different approach in the debt ceiling debate than we have seen in this battle and he said basically the president would
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not be having meetings with congressional leaders here over raising the debt ceiling and not on the phone with speaker boehner and senator mcconnell over that. i said you are not going to talk to him and a second advisor interrupted and said have you called someone and gotten their voice mail? i said what are you talking about? >> lookion the debt ceiling is something the presiden presidet believes should be negotiated. they he believe if the president sits down and negotiates it he will lose that battle and inside the white house their view that what republicans did is hold the economy hostage. you heard the talking points before and they said they are not going to go through that again. the republican view on this is that the threat of not lifting the debt ceiling is what forced the president a year and a half ago in december of 2012 t summe up with spending cuts. in this debate we are seeing there is virtually no spending cuts.
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the bottom line is the republicans will push ahead and say he they will hold that over the president's head to get more spending cuts. the white house saying we are not going to sit down and negotiate it. i talked to one of the president's advisors tonight and he told me if you think this battlele was tough he said it was a direct tough then we are about to ensure teresa payton 60 days of nasty -- but to enter 60 days of nastiness. a prelude to a much bigger battle over spending cuts, bret. >> bret: 60 days of nastiness. i don't know what the days we just passed could be called -- >> this is day one. >> bret: could be nastier, perhaps. one last thing, what is the perception inside the white house of the bigger problem when it comes to spending entitlement problems? we have heard the president talk numerous times in the past about the drivers of medicare, medicaid, social security and how eventually they will
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overtake the u.s. economy. he said that at numerous events and he talked about concern about getting things under control in a big picture way. it was his deficit and debt commission that he commissioned that came up with a solution in the simpson bowles that hasn't really moved forward. how do they say they going to deal with that? or do they in the wake of what republicans have been talking about? >> last night i do one of the president's top advisors and he basically said that their view now is that they may have a shift in strategy and instead of focusing on a so-called grand bargain and everyone is tired of hearing about that phrase again and again over the last year and a half. a big deal with a lot of spending cut thes and a lot of tax increases frank little. they are starting to see there is so much division over that kind of approach it might be better to move forward with smaller chunks of deficit reduction and smaller deals like this that sort of chip
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away at the problem. the problem with that strategy as you know is the explosive growth of the entitlements like medicare is so severe that if you chip away in little bits you may never really turn the problem around. again, the white house accuses speaker boehner are walking away from the table. the president was willing to reform the entitlements in recent months. the republicans believe he wasn't serious about cutting entitlements but the white house basically says they should have called the president's bluff and signed the grand bargain the president had on the table a few weeks guy and we could workers have seen. he has now been reelected and has four more years in office and he will face pressure to o show presidential leadership in solving what is one of the nation's biggest problems this exploding debt. >> bret: ed henry great job at the white house as always. we will head back for any breaking details. back with our panel. charles, just react to what you just heard. >> i was really fascinated by the exchange that went on on
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the floor of the house between dave camp who is a republican chairman of the house ways and means committee and sandy levin the democrat who is the ranking democrat on the committee. one of the grand old old timers in the house and camp who is trying to get this thing through with the best face on it said you know, well, this marks the end of the tax raising phase of all this, this puts a cap on it and levin responded in 15 seconds in one of the sharpest remarks i ever heard from a member of the house who looks as if he is about to fall asleep said very quietly said no, this is not the end, this is not the cap. this is the beginning of taxation which echos exactly what the president had said on monday. and that one of the great objectives of democrats here is to solve our fiscal problems overall by returning us to high tax rates and that is where they want to go pre-regan.
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another interesting exchange earlier at end of the hour between two leading republicans between darrell issa and david camp and issa is in support i mean issa is against and camp is in favor. obama has succeeded in splitting the republicans. weakening them and now this has to pass the house with democratic support which shows that republicans have lost control of the house which was otherwise a blocking agent. obama has had a political success on top of a substantive success. >> bret: sandy levin, congressman from michigan continuing to call democrats up for this debate on the senate piece of legislation. we'll go through exactly what is inside that on the the other side of the break as we continue with our panel and continue coverage of this historic night. a vote in the house of representatives to try to avoid all of the things that come along with the fiscal cliff that the u.s. has already gone over. >> but this is a bill which -- [ male announcer ] coughequence™ #8. waking the baby.
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>> bret: this is a fox news alert. i'm bret baier live in washington. watching the house floor where the house is in the process of debating the senate h-passed legislation on the fiscal cliff. here is what is in the legislation as you take a look at the different bullet points. first of all, it is a tax -- makes the bush tax cuts permanent. extending for all incomes up to $400,000 for individual and $450,000 for a family. effectively that means households above those thresholds their tax rate would go up to 39.6% up from 35%. and that was -- that is the current tax rate. the 39.6% is the rate that was back in the clinton area. it also has the payroll tax cut expiring. it does have payroll tax cut increase actually up to 6.2%.
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the bill would permanently adjust the income exemption levels for the alternative minimum tax, the amt and would adjust it for inflation. that is a big deal because every year congress would have to come back and do what is called an amt patch. they won't have to do that now. also, capital gains. capital gains and dividend tax rates for high income households would increase to 20% from 15%. for everyone else investment tax rates would remain at 15% or below. then you have extending long-term unemployment benefits through 2013. the estate tax would be 40% of inheritance and $10 million per couple you, $5 million individual. it extends business tax credits and stammels tax credits, including wind farm credits. the business tax credits are the tax extenders and also does
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the medicare doc fix and that s avoiding a scheduled 27% cut mckinley reimbursement for medicare services for are one year. that would also boost the deficit. also a place for the sequester, the across-the-board cuts that would hit the pentagon and domestic programs but only replaces that for two months and that was one of the biggest fight on the senate side before the senate passed this piece of legislation. right now you are listening to jim rand, democrat from maryland. let's listen in. >> we will have none of those resources to make that investment after we make this vote tonight. and the problem is we set up three more fiscal cliffs. we are going to have to deal with the debt ceiling. we are going to have to deal with the continuing resolution. expiration. and we will have to deal with the sequester. and all that is left is spending cuts so the only question we have to ask ourselves is what programs do we cut and how deep do we cut them?
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we got to look back on this night and regret it not withstanding the fact that 95% of it apparently will vote for it. thank you, mr. chairman. >> i'm prepared to close. >> the gentleman from michigan, mr. levin. >> i now yield one minute to the gentleman from new york. >> bret: i said jim moran from maryland. from virginia. heated up about the fiscal cliff debates yet to come. and he is right. one will start just after this one if in fact this bill passes because the debt ceiling debate will begin soon after that as we talked about tonight with the panel. we will continue this it looks like they are coming to the end of the debate and the vote will happen soon after that. continued analysis here on fox news channel as we watch this historic vote tonight on the fiscal cliff. up. >> the american people are fed up with what they see with the dysfunctional congress.
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>> bret: this is a fox news alert. congress getting ready to act. the house of representatives in action debating the senate-passed legislation. now, you are listening, seeing, rather, jim clyburn, congressman from south carolina. the democrats finishing up their debate on this bill, a bill that does a number of things. we just outlined. there are critics on both sides of the aisle but supporters say this s another step forward. let's toss it now to chris stirewalt fox visual politics editor for his take on what we are seeing here. chris, you know, republicans seem today to have to come to grips with this. and it seems just counting heads according to our producer mike emanuel up on the hill that they willle have the votes to pass this. your thoughts on this piece of
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legislation and where we are? >> well, if they are going to pass it, bret, they will have to do it with a whole lot of democrats because as i am looking here tonight and talking to republicans in the house caucus they are not happy about this. they don't like this. this is a to them they have been jammed. and they don't like it. and they have been left over to the last minute. and they knew this when the president rejected the idea -- if we think about it this way, the president rejected $800 billion in new tax revenue from tax loophole closures and said that it had to be a rate increase and here we stand with $650 billion in tax rate increases. it is less money and the republicans feel embittered by this. the speaker may be able to let this go forward and we are hearing the democrats now. we are hearing charlie rangel
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go forward with this. what i'm hearing in my in box is that the conservatives in the house republican caucus are not happy about how this has shaped up. >> bret: so they live to fight another day, is that the pitch that was made behind closed doors? they fight this battle using the debt ceiling as the leverage and they try to go for the spending cuts in the big changes over the next six weeks? >> well, downwin john boehner a different kind of speaker of the house than we he have ever seen before in this sense. whatever they want to do they will do. his members are allowed to vote, however, they are going vote. now, the hastert rule and we heard a lot about the hastert rule and i don't want to get down into the weeds here. >> bret: we he talked about it the majority of the majority that the speaker wouldn't bring forward a piece of legislation if the majority of his own caucus didn't have the votes for it.
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if he had to pass something using more democrats than republicans he wouldn't bring forward the bill. >> you are kind to let me go weed whacking but the truth is boehner is a different kind of speaker than we experienced in the past in that whatever the rule is about who gets to vote which way or what comes on the floor boehner is a different kind of speaker and he doesn't whip. he doesn't force people to vote one way or the other. he says you will vote, however, you want to do. this is a guy that we saw have a stand ovation inside his own caucus the day before yesterday and the way he does it and the way that everything that he does is this, you do what you want to do. and if this is going to pass, i suspect if it is not a majority of democratic votes it will be a strong plurality of democratic votes and there is a lot of unhappiness because there are zero cuts in this. and this is what the republicans wanted. and as far as what happens the next time and what happens the next year, there is -- this is
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a strong word but heart brokenness over the lack of cuts in this and when you talk to these folks and when they are e-mailing out you can hear it in their voice that even those who are going to vote for it are embittered over this. this does not set up a good opportunity for governance for the president and the speaker. >> bret: chris, stand by if you will. that is the house minority whip steny hoyer who have from maryland on the house floor now. listen.ist green bay we come >> almost everyone who has spoken says this bill is not perfect. that observation could be applied to any and owl bills that we consider in this house. compromise is not the art of perfection. by its very definition a compromise contains elements that neither side likes. but it also contains pieces both sides can embrace.
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what we will do tonight is not only adon' adopt a piece of legislation that will give literally tens of millions of americans the assurance that their taxes will not be raised, millions of small businesses that their taxes will not be raised, millions of people who through no fault of their own are struggling to find a job and try to keep bread on their table, the assurance that we will be there to help. tonight we will come together and do something else. with 37.5 hours left to go in the 112th congress, we will display to all of our constituents that yes in the final analysis we have the ability to come together, to act not as republicans, not as democrats, but as americans.
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435 of us sent here by our neighbors and friends to try to do the best we can, realizing there are 435 points of view that sit in this chamber. and that what we strive to do is to reconcile those differences to create consensus for without consensus democracy cannot work. there will be time for partisan differences. there will be time for partisan confrontation in the days in the 113th congress. but this night as we end the 112th congress, as we have strived mightily to come to an agreement with great difficulty and realizing that all of us have very strong feelings i severely regret that this is not a big, bold, balanced plan. >> i yield two minutes to the
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gentleman. >> the gentleman recognized for an additional two minutes. >> i recognize this is not a big, bold and balanced plan. we had an opportunity to reach such an agreement. n. a bipartisan fashion. and we will not reach a big bold and balanced plan without bipartisanship because the decisions we will have to make will be too difficult. not to be done in a bipartisan fashion. but this night we take a step. a positive step. and the people watching us, mr. speaker, on television tonight and reading about their congress tomorrow and seeing that we were able to act. not perfectly. but in a bipartisan fashion to try to take a step towards fiscal responsibility, fiscal stability, and, yes, caring for
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those who most need our help in this country. and so i urge my colleagues as the leader of my party in this congress you restructuringed uo survivors -- you urged us to support this legislation as an american who understands that our people believe that action is necessary. and i would urge all of us as we close this debate to do so in a way that brings us together not drive us apart. >> bret: house minority whip steny hoyer urging the passage of the bill. the debate time is almost up. republican ares not offering any more speakers and democrats still have a few more. we will be covering this until the big vote.d keep it right here on fox news
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>> bret: this is is a fox news alert live in washington continuing coverage of the house vote on the senate-passed legislation to avoid the fiscal cliff. just as i said no more republicans were taking to the floor as the chairman of the house ways and means committee dave camp had said. ed royce republican from california has taken to say a few words. let's listen >> it permanently protects the middle class from the alternative minimum tax and it adjusts that for inflation. the plan does away with a new entitlement program created in obama care and makes permanent a 15% capital gains in dividends rate for income up to $400,000 for singles, and $450,000 for married couples and a 20% rate for those above. that rate would have gone to 39.6% for dividends. that would have been very injurious for our capital markets. that would be very injurious
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for economic growth if we allowed that to happen. so tax relief has been achieved. now, is the time for the president to work with congress to address government overspending, the underlying problem and i yield back the balance of my time. >> gentleman yields back his time. gentleman from michigan, mr. levin? >> ready to close? >> bret: bring in chris stirewalt. obviously the republicans supporting this piece of legislation are listing all of benefits of this -- of these tax cuts and congressman royce mentioning the permanent fix for the alternative minimum tax. >> if they were going do this, brett bret, they should have done it a lot sooner. just from a strategic point of view regardless of the policy, if you were going to extend the bush tax rates for any level and we saw how they failed with 1 million and below, now we are talking about 450 and below. if you are going to do this,
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they strategically should have done it sooner because with no cuts, zero cuts and that is what is in this legislation is zero cuts, they should have done it sooner. this is wasteful to have gone this long and get this close to the end an hour and a half away from the end and get zero cuts is wasteful. tom cole the congressman from oklahoma who used to run the republican's political arm in the house basically said and he said it probably too soon in order to get buy-in from the members of the house republican caucus but if you going to do it, do it sooner, don't wait until the end and then you can fight over getting some cuts this way in the end they are going to it looks like they going to extend the tax rates and not get any cuts out of the deal. >> bret: okay, chris. stand by, if you would. sandy levin from michigan the top democrat on the house ways and means committee saying he is about done offering
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democrats up in the debate which means that the debate is closing and we could have the final series of votes which is what we have been waiting for. as we wait for that i want to bring back jonathan hoenig from capitalistpig .com about the market reaction. we have been talking about what whatarkets may do and whistle they have done up until now about washington's back and firth. your additional thoughts? we didn't talk that long about an hour guy. >> bret, i do think you will likely see some sem brans breaking news of a relief rally. literally trillions of dollars on the sidelines waiting to see what would play out here literally in the last the few hours. no question as was just pointed out because no spending cuts are proposed there is zero spending cuts within the whole proposal perhaps some tax cuts have been preserved but no spending cuts and that along with the entitlement problem really is what is at the heart of our nation's financial
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troubles. those aren't addressed at all and sandy levin talked about even higher taxes down the pipeline. with all of the talk about needing more resolution and certainty, i think unfortunately for america's investors very much the opposite has been achieved tonight. >> bret: the business community and how washington has operated against the deadlines and these cliffs and we will see more of them. we have the debt ceiling coming up. we have the continuing resolution to fund the government. we have a few more of these already in the pipeline not even knowing what is still out there. how does wall street look at that long-term and what do analysts say about that? >> i -- in my experience, bret, they are resentful. the government talks about an extra 3, 4, 5% at capital gains taxes are going up. that seems to mean nothing to washington but means a lot to wall street. in terms of planning long-term the fact that there had been no long-term certainty put into place here. there has been no cuts to it
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entitlement programs addressed at all. once again wall street both the big players and very small left unable to plan long-term. think three, five, ten years out about their own finances and that of their companies because there has been no substantial resolution to any of the core issues, the spending and entitlements which have not been addressed by this president or this at all. >> bret: we are watch, the final debate. dave camp is wrapping up now. take a listen in as he closes his remarks. >> and that is out of control spending. obligations that we have not got the financial wherewithal to meet. we need to strengthen those programs and make sure that they are sustainable for the long-term but also need to it address the problem that is out of control spending. this is the first step. per are manent tax policy that sets the stage for comprehensive and fundamental tax reform and then addressing
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out of control spending. this will be several steps. this is an important one and critical one for the future of the country it and i urge a yes vote and yield back the balance of my time. >> the previous question isrd odd. jet is on the motion by the gentleman from michigan mr. camp. those in favor say aye. oh supposed? >> the recorded vote is qud. those favoring a recorded vote will rise. the recorded vote is ordered. members record their votes by electronic device. pursuant to clause 8 of rule 20 this 15 minute vote on the motion to concur will be followed by a vote on the motion to suspend the rules and pass if ordered. this is a 15 minute vote. >> bret: and here we go. this is the vote tally. the vote that we have been waiting for. after finishing debate this is
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now a 15 minute vote on the fiscal cliff legislation that passed the senate overwhelmingly. we will see how the vote comes down as it is tallied. you can see on the bottom of the screen there. this is again not controlled by us, the camera or the tally but the time remaining 14:34 and you can see the yeas and nays. back with the panel. steve, thoughts? >> well, it was interesting to see that republicans you just had a couple of republicans up there making the case for this and making arguments on behalf of this vote. i think if i'm a republican if i'm advising the republicans that is as much good as i'm going to say about this bill from now now forward. i'm not talking about it or selling it as a positive. i think it is going be the case that people in the country who haven't i don't think been as engaged on the question of the fiscal cliff as they had in the debates over health care and
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things of that nature are going to -- the more they see of this the more they don't like the process. the less they going to like it. you will have people who probably haven't been paying close attention wake up and discover that their payroll taxes have gone up and they are not going to like this deal. film' the republicans i don't continue to try to sell this as some huge positiv positive pren of the bush tax rates. move on quickly and try to refocus as we heard dave camp doing the discussion on spending. >> bret: as we look at the numbers, the magic number in the house has been 218 but chad points out that at 418 votes members cast ballots on the last the role call vote tonight. that means that they he don't need the typical 218 to pass and you have to get of gage where it is. might be 217 at a minimum. out of 418 they might need as
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low as 210 to reach the threshold. it is likely that tonight they are are going to get well over that. >> right. i think it is important to point out because we have continued noting the majority rule that the republican speaker to be up for another reelection vote for his job would be bringing bills to the floor only that could attract the majority but the truth is that dennis hastert the speaker who people use his name for this rule actually waved it several times himself and this might be an occasion where we are going to see some democrats drop off but be the majority of the vote, not republicans. but looking forward after this sort of dismal night for republicans, as steve has said, you know, and charles, the focus is now going to turn to spending. and republicans have to continue to beat that drum with the onus back on the president
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and the democrats. i don't think actually that the president gets away with saying that the debt ceiling debate is nonnegotiatable. that the debt ceiling increase is nonnegotiable. what you will flare business and market watchers and the markets themselves in the weeks to come is we have a major debt problem and someone has to get around to dealing with it. >> bret: we heard it from simpson bowles and the deficit and debt commissions. >> and they will keep talking and that is a problem. the president is still complicit in this. if our government gets our credit rating downgraded again our government has asked for it. he is the president of the united states. we are in a fragile economy. the world is waiting to see if we are still a good bet. and that is the bottom line. we can get past this vote and on to the next but at some point the president has to engage on whether -- yes, the big question for business was
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do we go off the cliff. the next big question for businesses before they release a trillion dollars in capital or $2 trillion they have been sitting on the sidelines with, do we have the sent to continue to invest in this -- certainty to continue to invest in this economy and new hires that is the question that the president ultimately has to answer at some point. >> bret: the yeas, 103 and nays 56. a little more are than ten minutes left in the vote on the motion to pass the senate legislation to deal with the fiscal cliff. charles krauthammer? >> the markets will make the president look at the debt problem. but look how much he gained tonight. they gave away so little. they gave away nothing. for example he eject the very idea of having just a technical change in how the cost of living is calculated. why did he do that? so that he now can give a bone to the republicans in the future in another negotiations. again, in return for spending cuts. look, tonight is one of the low
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points that republicans have ever had in the last few years. it was on substance and also on politics. on the substance this is a really bad deal and obama's cleverness in insisting on raising rates s that he is going to follow this now by trying to raise taxes through deductions. and remember, the republican speaker has already offered $800 billion in higher -- in higher revenues as a result of eliminating loopholes. he still has that he can pocket. so he gets a double rise in taxes on rates, and then on eliminating the deductions and that is on substance. but on the politics i think was really fascinating what we saw tonight which is obama understood that if he got the republicans he insisted on rates being increased. he made it an ultimatum. said either you agree on raising rates on the rich or
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get nothing to go over the cliff. he broke the unity of the republicans. in the last two years he wasn't able to achieve anything of substance in the house because it was a united republican house that stopped him. all the achiefments he got, obama care and stimulus he got in the first two year when had control of the congress. now, look what happened tonight. the republicans are split and this will only be able to pass because democrats are supporting it. on the politics of this, he s now very much weakened the republicans. he split the republicans in the house and the one obstacle to his being able to control the agenda in washington is now very much diminished and that i think was his political objective in all of this so he achieved a lot on substance, higher taxes or tried to undo the regan idea of the lower taxes and second on the politics by splitting the republicans and taking essentially control of washington. that doesn't mean he will
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succeed through the two years and have it all his way but he sure has succeeded tonight and that is why republicans as chris said are so bitter and heartbroken. >> bret: you are looking at the vote tally. already have 43 republicans voting for this and you can see the democratic tally right now. i should point out that while the clock is open and you see 7:35 on the bottom of the clock that members can change their vote. they can go and change yea to nay and nay to yea. they have not vote. you can see all of the not vote there's. also not official until the gavel comes down and worth pointing out that the votes do change. when we were talking about the magic number to pass it depends on how many members vote. it is usually 218 to pass a piece of legislation but judging by the other pieces, the other bills tonight it could be as low as 210, just to
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explain that further. steve, do you buy what charles was saying about the president's motivation here politically? >> yeah, i think he is right about the consequences of it. i do think he succeeded in dividing republicans and you also have a situation where republicans having given in on this principle, this long held principle of not raising rates now the president no doubt will ask again and again and again to say well, now i have -- i think we need more on rates. i think we need more on revenues. the speaker offered us this money on revenues. i don't think there is any question the president has said it and we heard sandy levin say it tonight that he is going to ask republicans to do more on the revenue side. what i think the republicans can say is we focused on the revenue and first step was all revenue and it has got to be spending. that is the source of the problem and everybody understands that. >> bret: this vote is continuing. we will take a quick break. the house votes on a big bill. ♪
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>> bret: this is a fox news alert. you are looking live at the house floor where the house is now voting on the fiscal cliff legislation. you can see that is 166 yeas to 110 nays. this is not official. this is kind of an unofficial scorecard. not official until the gavel comes down but it is the tallying done by the house inside. and they are now republicans at 59 yeas and democrats at 110. it is very rare for the speaker of the house to vote but we have been told that speaker john boehner made his way to the agai floor again and made t walk many times through will rogers, the hallway there in front of the house chamber and just after that he voted here
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and he did vote aye for the bill. we have not been told yet that -- we have been told that the house majority leader eric cantor has not voted yet. we don't have world o word of d other names we don't have big republican names as of yet but you can see the tally continues as time is ticking down. again the magic number we believe to be about 210 to pas this piece of legislation. we are back with the panel. a.b., the boehner vote and well, the significance of what you are seeing there on the screen? >> well, interesting that they have lost ten democrats so far. that number could grow. but if they could -- if the democrats contained it, that is pretty interesting and you heard some, you new york city leadership exhorting the members to support it. >> bret: almost twice as many
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democrats at this point. >> right. i'm told that the boehner vote on the rule was a good sign from members who are going to vote for this and hold their nose. they were looking for leadership cover and boehner voting on the rule gave them the sense that that -- that he would -- that he would come and vote for the bill and they are hoping that that gives some other republicans cover because the people who are doing what they think is the dirty work to get this over the line in the republican con fenc conferencey are looking for company. >> bret: saying that grover norquist just tweeted out a message. of course, the legendary or depending on your point of view if you are a democrat infamous tax cutter and fights for tax cuts and against tax increases here in washington heads up a group that really keeps the
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fire on the feet of lawmakers here. he just tweeted out "the bush tax cuts lapsed at midnight last night. every republican voting for senate bill is cutting taxes and keeping his or her pledge ." something that i think republicans were mentioning already. you can see that the time remaining there is at zero. and we are at 2:05 to 139. you can see the no votes there ticking down. the time can be extended for this vote and apparently there are a number of lawmakers who are waiting until the very end to cast their votes. again, we are are on the threshold here of passing the passage and i think we may have just made it at 2 214. charleston? >> while it is over. -- charles? >> the good news for all americans is that as of
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tomorrow we may never have to hear the word, phrase "fiscal cliff" again. what i will regret is not being able to watch the charmingly languid sandy levin in the house. if you look at the democratic side it is about 10-1 in favor by democrats and almost to about 2 to 1 against by republicans which is a good reflection of who won here. and what s so interesting is that, of course, it is the democrats who are carrying the votes and if you look at the whole process it started out with the republicans in the house. the speaker as the one who was negotiating on behalf of the opposition. in the end he was completely sidelined. once the republicans had split in the house they were not a factor. it was negotiated in the senate where the democrats, of course, have the majority. mitch mcconnell to his credit was able to negotiate a deal, any deal that would avoid
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would have been another catastrophe, the republicans being the ones responsible for the country having to have the huge increase in taxes. he worked out a deal as he has done in the past with the debt ceiling and in 2010 when worked out another tax increase agreement with obama. he did his job. notice how all the way ended up? in the senate and by the time it reached the house controlled by the republicans they were irrelevant and had no choice and the democrats put it over the top decisively as you can see on theoard right now. that shows how much this has been a political disaster for the republicans. theyville to regroup. and remember, when vow have a new house thursday there will be 10 more democrats. the republicans will be even weaker and they are going to go into the fight with obama over the next issues over the continui

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